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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jun 23, 2009 5:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

"Keep on Chooglin'" is off the 2nd CCR album, 'Bayou Country' and it's a regular song in Fogerty's live performances; also, Tom F. played with Jerry a number of times in the early '70s, so he probably was on pretty good terms w/John as well

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jun 23, 2009 5:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

Garcia and Merl were tight with Tom Fogarty, played on at least 2 of his LP's - but apparently there was a real rift between Tom and John that literally lasted a lifetime. It wasn't until after Tom's death that they played with John at the memorial show for Bill Graham.

If I recall correctly, they didn't jam at all, it was like John Fogarty and his rent-a-band, the Grateful Dead. Jerry shoulda smacked the fucker. Great songwriter, all show bizness. Kinda like Neil Diamond at the Last Waltz, what the fuck was Robbie Robertson smoking?


This post was modified by Earl B. Powell on 2009-06-24 00:49:51

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 23, 2009 7:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

Hey now! A little respect for history here!

I'm not a Neil Diamond fan or anything, but in the movie Robertson talks about how much old Neil helped them out in their early days in New York - he liked their songwriting, and introduced them to other songwriters and musicians, which led to their first few songs being recorded. I think it's kind of cool that they honored that.

And there was history around that gig where Jerry, Bob and Randy Jackson were John Fogerty's band as well - it was the week that Fogerty won his lawsuit with Fantasy Recordss. The AIDS benefit concert at the Oakland-Alameda Coliseum had been scheduled for a long time, but legend has it that it was Bob and Jerry who called Fogerty and said he should come out and play. They did a damn fine job backing him with something like three hours rehearsal time, and I am truly okay without the 15 minute Proud Mary ...

This post was modified by fenario80 on 2009-06-24 02:39:42

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jun 24, 2009 6:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

"Hey now! A little respect for history here!"

Robbie Robertson is the last person anyone should defend when it comes to respect for history.

Muddy Waters was going to get bumped to make room for Neil Diamond and FOUR, count them, FOUR Joni Mitchell numbers.

The only reason he ended up playing was because Levon refused to play if Muddy was bumped.

Not to mention Robbie sold The Band to Warner Bros (behind their backs) so he and Scorsese could make their cocaine induced "the road's gonna take my life, so I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead" final concert.

Of course its a musical masterpiece including some of the finest performances ever which makes my previous points almost entirely null.

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Poster: Pork Soda Date: Jun 24, 2009 7:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17IDaiVFbKo

A reenactment of the cocaine induced frenzy begins at 1:40

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 24, 2009 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

I stand corrected on the whole Neil Diamond thing - I must have heard that story from a Neil Diamond fan!

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Poster: clashcity Date: Jun 24, 2009 8:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

Here's some text from Levon's book telling the story - his side of it at least...

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:4pIQO5qN_BcJ:www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/arts-do-it-puke-and-get-out-the-last-waltz-made-music-and-cinema-history-the-final-concert-by-the-band-starring-their-famous-friends-it-became-a-martin-scorsese-film-rated-the-best-rock-movie-of-all-but-behind-the-scenes-there-was-mayhem-levon-helm-of-the-band-tells-the-inside-story-1369030.html

We were having trouble flying in Muddy Waters's guitar player because he wasn't in the original budget. There were a lot of fights, a lot of screaming. When Bill Graham let go, boy, the old spit would fly.

Cocaine was a big deal at the time. Bill had painted one of the dressing rooms white, walls and ceiling, and put a thick white rug on the floor. The only thing in the room was a sleek glass table with razor blades artfully strewn about. They had cut the noses out of Groucho Marx masks and pasted them up on the white walls. Hundreds of big pink noses and nostrils. A tape played sniffing noises. This was the 'Cocteau Room', and it was often filled with people tapping the razors on the table.

Two days before the show, our studio manager tried to talk to me. 'Levon,' he said, 'we've invited too many people. The show's gonna run for hours] We, uh, we gotta take someone off the show.'

I snarled: 'Go tell Robertson to tell Neil Diamond we don't even know who the fuck he is]'

Some of my Arkansas friends were in the room and laughed at this, but I wasn't laughing. I knew what was coming.

This flunky said: 'Um, we've all discussed it, and we're thinking about, ah, maybe, you know, taking Muddy off the show.'

I just looked at him.

'Anyway, we were hoping maybe you could talk to Muddy for us.'

There was silence for an awful 30 seconds. I was trying to get a grip before I answered. We were all under tremendous pressure because of this movie. The whole damn thing had been hijacked to the nth degree.

I had to clear my throat before I could speak. 'Not only will I talk to Muddy,' I managed, 'but I will also take Muddy back to New York, and we will do the goddamn Last Waltz in New York. Him and me. Yes, I'll talk to Muddy, you no-good, low-grade sumbitch] Now get the hell out of my sight, before I have some of these here Arkansas boys stomp you to death]' He disappeared before I could do any more damage. Muddy stayed in the show.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jun 24, 2009 5:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

I'd be OK with a 15min Suzy Q though

did any of you oldies catch CCR when they played with the Northern California State Youth Choir(Edwin Hawkins Singers)in 1969 at Winterland?
The latter blew the house down!

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 23, 2009 6:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

I can hardly listen to ccr any longer since it brings to mind a brother suing a brother...

the last waltz:
mr diamond: "You'll have to be pretty good to follow me"
mr dylan: "What do I have to do, go on stage and fall asleep?"

regarding robbie: it would be sad if his mic was indeed turned off...though maybe not any worse than some of his other acts...

now I am going to have to listen "caravan" since van was the man that night...

I should note that I have credited neil diamond for certain tunes in this forum, but he was truly a fish out of water that night.






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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jun 23, 2009 7:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

I was onto the whole Tinpan Alley thing with Neil Diamond, and he has his place along side Neil Sedaka, but not Neil Young. He was genuinely out of place at the Last Waltz gig. I can't recall from Bill Graham's autobiography whether ND was an issue for the show or not. It just seemed surreal with his Hollywood shades and disco suit.

Given some reflection, it appeared as if it was Scorcese's and Robetson's master feat, a celebration of hanging your bandmates out to dry. Although I love Robertson's music, I've seen him to be disingenuous regarding his ongoing spat with Levon Helm...

As for John Fogerty, same thing, hung his brother and his band out to dry. (and the phrase "put me in coach" has no place in the history of R&R)

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 23, 2009 9:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Dry Your Eyes II...

"Robertson talks..."..."and talks, and talks"..that is the rest of the band speaking...sorry, I have too much ambrose bierce in me for my own good...

so I try to watch what I read and hear about the band since I love them so much...and I don't want them to become a ccr for me...

"What do I have to do, go on stage and fall asleep?"

It is a good line from a Ron Wood story, which usually brings out a discussion that highlights neil d.'s influence on the band and his impact on popular music, with the big question being if he fit into the show or not.

anyway, I was hesitant to use the bobby d line again since I thought it was kind of a low blow, funny, but low. However, listening to the performance and in the context of the night neil diamond was a fish out of water. The crowd reaction says it all; and I have a feeling some of them knew their history as well.

IMVHO: it would have worked better if they had him as part of the movie and not the concert; as they did with the staple singers.

(so is it me or did he have his "jim jones" look working that night??? and can you still get a version of the film with the rock of coke dangling from neil's nose...oh, that is young's and not diamond's...he has stated that it was one of those night that he did a rail or two or three...he does become a little animated...)

the band->ronnnie hawkins->dr john->bobby charles and dr john->butterfield->muddy waters->clapton->neil->joni->neil d.->VAN->the canadians (joni and neil)->the band->bobby d->ronnie wood and ringo->jam I->jam II (stills, finally shows)->the band..."don't you do it..."

one great night of music!!!

so I say "again" above since I knew I had posted the line before...though I didn't realize it was close to two years ago...wow...how time flies...

Dry Your Eyes I:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=133038

btw: In reading my old post, maybe it would have been better if neil d. had sang his "the pot smokers song" instead of "dry your eyes"...and this line is true two years later as well: "One thing I love about this site is that it takes me down some musical trails that I don't expect to be traveling and they usually lead to gold. "

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 24, 2009 5:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dry Your Eyes II...

Hey v--I very much like the Band, and now can't recall: is it during this flick or a much later one that they are often drunk, and talking among themselves? Not that there is anything wrong with either, but they come off badly in one docu flick that I saw, and I haven't actually seen this one for a while (I never saw the accomplishment aspect for Martin on this one...sorta bland really, music aside). Anyhow, I was really taken aback by how almost White Trash they came off at times...coulda been an act almost...not sure.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jun 24, 2009 7:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dry Your Eyes II...

I don't think it's any secret that the Band boys were juicers in a very large way, part of Robertson's argument that they hang it up in order to physically survive. Helm and Danko show themselves pretty clearly in the film. This is nothing compared to Danko's drunken rendition of "No More Cane" with Janis and Jerry in the Festival Express film.

When you consider that this group of guys toured with Ronnie Hawkins, it's no surprise they come off as rednecks.

Like many if not most of the musicians out there, we know nothing of their personalities and at times it makes no difference. With the Band, I have to respect their depth of knowledge with regard to historic American music, and this thought was obviously shared with musicians like Dylan and Eric Clapton.

The ironic part of the Last Waltz for me was that I got more from their backstage performance of The Weight with the Staple Singers than any other part of the movie.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 24, 2009 1:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dry Your Eyes II...

Yeah, as we have discussed so many times re: personalities vs art vs human beings vs whatever.

As much as anything, it is that it comes as a shock to your pre-conc'd notions.

EG, imagine that you and I are here today, with all our knowledge and love of the Boys, and somehow, he'd be a recluse or what have you, and we had NO knowledge of Hunter.

I would be deeply disappointed to find out he was a wife beating, child abusing, bigoted SOB that was missing two front teeth...But, I'd get over it. I suppose.

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Poster: pokeyloki Date: Jun 24, 2009 5:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

Bill G didnt always come up with bands that complimented each other at shows, for instance Robin Trower playing second bill to Sha Na Na at winterland...
or Prince opening for Led Zeppelin

This post was modified by pokeyloki on 2009-06-25 00:26:31

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 24, 2009 10:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

Van was the man. The jump suit and karate kicks. I love all of this behind the scenes stuff with Robertson and Helm. You get the sense of what kind of guy Robertson was just based on the first few minutes of the film where he's calling cut and asking to do more takes of his oh so important speech.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jun 24, 2009 12:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Neil Diamond @ "The Last Waltz".

Here is Levon Helm's take on having Neil Diamond play at "The Last Waltz" from his autobiography "This Wheels On Fire":

"When I heard that Neil Diamond was going to play I asked "What the hell does Neil Diamond have to do with us?" Robertson had just produced his album, I was told. "But what does he represent to The Band?" I asked. Robbie called me up at the Miramar. "Well, Neil is like Tin Pan Alley",he said. That Brill Building scene, songwriters like Doc Pomus.." "Why don't we just get Doc Pomus..?"
"I was glad I insisted on Muddy Waters."

""Levon", he said, "we've invited too many people. The shows gonna run for hours! We, uh,gotta take someone off the show." I snarled, "Go tell Robertson to tell Neil Diamond we don't even know who the fuck he is!"

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Neil Diamond had introduced The Band (The Hawks, Levon & The Hawks..)to Brill Building songwriters and helped them with the record business. That is not the case at all. Their recording career began as Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks. They recorded for Roulette Records in 1959 for the mobbed up record producer/businessman Morris Levy, the man the Sopranos character Herman "Hesh" Rabkin was based on. Robbie Robertson didn't join the Hawks until a year or so later, and it was Ronnie Hawkins who first introduced the young Robbie Robertson to the Brill Building songwriters. Any relationship with Neil Diamond didn't happen until Robbie produced a Neil Diamond album in the seventies.

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2009-06-24 07:19:09

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 24, 2009 7:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Neil Diamond @ 'The Last Waltz'.

I stand corrected on the whole Neil Diamond thing - I must have heard that story from a Neil Diamond fan! Thank you for the history lesson.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 24, 2009 7:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Neil Diamond @ 'The Last Waltz'.

I stand corrected on the whole Neil Diamond thing - I must have heard that story from a Neil Diamond fan! Thank you for the history lesson.

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 23, 2009 10:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Neil Diamond @ 'The Last Waltz'.

thanks SkyDawg!!!

I forgot about the album connection...and "dry your eyes" was from "beautiful noise"...shyte...I even remember buying it since I lived in the sticks and very few full length lp's made it to g.c. murphy's and you grabbed what you could hoping to trade or sell if it sucked...I don't recall what happened to that album...though I doubt it lasted long...funny, I probably jumped for joy when I saw it was produced by robbie or at least tried to use it as a trading/selling point..."what do you mean neil diamond, look who produced it..."

"Go tell Robertson to tell Neil Diamond we don't even know who the fuck he is!"

now that is funny...

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jun 23, 2009 6:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

well, okay, but JF, as you of course know, generally worked in the 3-4 minute range with songs, so the non-jam with the GD is not really all that surprising; and although i will give the nod to stratocaster when it comes to pronouncing on guitar players, etc., i'm not so sure i'd rate Fogerty as just "adequate", however, what the hell do i know; i can't recall where i read it (or heard it), but i do know that the rift w/Tom is what John feels the most pain (and regret) about up to today; on the other hand, when it comes to the "bios" and lives of celebrities & pols, i know less (and care less) than most people on this planet

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 23, 2009 7:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

Oh yeah, Arb...about the time I was warming up to the DEAD, I was a huge CCR fan...had EVERY record, 45 and LP they ever put it out. They were huge in the East Bay, and a music teacher I had in HS (they played all the HSs in the mid60s, as the Golliwogs if I recall) always maintained he was their keyboard player prior to quitting to take a HS teaching job to make $. He said that one or two of them were drafted, but somehow stuck together and made it big a yr or two after he left, when they got out of the service.

Not sure what if any of the story is true, but he played them all the time and we all hung on every word as he told his stories about them...

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 24, 2009 6:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

it's impossible to care less than me

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 24, 2009 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Chooglin'/Up To Buffalo/Been Thinkin'...

Actually Jerry and Bob backed up Fogerty at the Aids benefit in Oakland May 89,over two years before the Bill Gram tribute.

Fogerty had a falling out with his entire band including his brother, I don't know the details but to never throw them a bone not even at the hall of fame show does seem petty to me. I have no idea what relationship if any he had with the band through the years( I'm familiar with Tom and Jerry no pun intended ).Obviously they must have liked playing the songs or with Fogerty on some level to do it twice. And as for jamming - why does that make Fogerty a jerk? To be honest if you listen to the sets having Jerry and Bob there seems like a novelty because they don't sound like they know the material at all and honestly don't contribute that much. Early Creedence like Suzie Q or Chooglin or even Grapevine have extended jams but most of their songs weren't about that. So how does this make it Fogerty's fault?